Dr. Andy Davis is a leading ecologist and expert studying monarch butterflies’ migration patterns and habitat requirements. Based in Georgia, Dr. Davis has dedicated his career to understanding the complex dynamics between monarch populations and human environmental impact. His research has been pivotal in highlighting the consequences of certain conservation practices, including planting native milkweed in Florida. It has advanced our understanding of monarchs and sparked meaningful conversations about our role in their survival.
Dr. Davis’s academic contributions and active public engagement are about more than just bridging the gap between scientific research and practical conservation strategies. They provide insights into the unique challenges that monarch butterflies face originating from the state of Florida, and they open up a dialogue on actionable guidance for policymakers and private citizens. Dr. Davis’ philosophy on conservation practices challenges conventional approaches and encourages a more nuanced understanding of ecological balance, offering a path toward sustainable habitats.
I asked Dr Davis to speak about his research on monarch butterflies so that he could inform the Floridian public about the unintended consequences of their conservation efforts.
This interview was edited lightly for clarity.
Simone Dominique
Dr. Davis, can you tell me a bit about your background? I see that you studied in Canada and then ended up in Georgia.
Andy Davis
I’m originally Canadian. I have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree from a small school in Eastern Canada, where I studied migratory birds for my master’s research. Here in Georgia, I continue my research in, sort of, a migratory field. And I’ve been doing that for a number of years now. And I switched over to monarchs at some point. I still keep a foothold in a lot of the animal migration world. In fact, I was the editor-in-chief of a journal devoted to animal migration for a while. As you know, Monarch Butterflies are migratory butterflies, and they have similarities between their migration and that of songbirds as well. And that’s what drew me to monarchs initially.
Simone Dominique
What was the genesis of this? Was there a mentor or someone who put you on this path? What opened up your eyes to this years ago?
Andy Davis
Years ago, I saw the monarchs travel through the places where I was catching birds for my Masters research, and it was the monarchs themselves that drew me to them—seeing them migrate and then making the connection between what they needed and what birds need. It’s similar things: they need resources along the way. They need safe weather. They must deposit fat on their bodies to carry them for fuel. They have to deal with wind and storms. And it’s a long distance. It’s harsh, it’s treacherous. So, there are so many similarities. And it’s not just monarchs, all animal migrations have the same pattern. They’re all hard. You wonder why so many animals do it.
Simone Dominique
What made you want to study this field in school? How would you even end up there? It’s not a typical field of study. I keep poking at that because I’m curious.
Andy Davis
Like how I ended up studying bird migration?
Simone Dominique
What made you decide at school that you wouldn’t do business as a field of study, for example?
Andy Davis
Oh, well, that part’s easy. I was the kid who always picked up frogs, snakes, salamanders, and stuff like that. You can always tell a future biologist, you know, as kids because almost every biologist—they’re always the same. They were always that kid with the bug collection, the butterfly net, the snakes in the jar, with whatever. It’s actually less common for someone who isn’t that way as a kid to become a biologist later. It’s much easier for an outdoorsy kid to begin to become a biologist.
Simone Dominique
Now I get it. There was a natural fascination. And then did an adult hold your hand and say, “Hey, this is a field of study you can do”?
Andy Davis
No, my parents were horrified about the snakes. And there was always this, you know, “Ooh, get it away from me” kind of thing. They probably shouldn’t have done that because it’s not sending a good message to the kids, but I didn’t care. But, my parents and everyone in my family just knew I would be a biologist. And then when I got to college, I immediately went into biology and never even thought twice about it. I’m sure every other biologist is the same way.
Simone Dominique
Okay. It makes sense now because when I interview people who work in, say, tech, they remember watching sci-fi movies as kids. And why the University of Georgia? Can you tell me what you love about the university?
Andy Davis
I actually love the football team! I’ve become a lifelong Bulldogs fan. It doesn’t hurt that we’ve won two of the most recent national championships. In fact, I can look out my lab window and see the stadium from my window!
Simone Dominique
Killer view. All right, great. So, let’s talk about monarchs. Why is the public so passionate about this little, bright-colored butterfly?
Andy Davis
I’m shaking my head right now because I don’t know, either. It’s crazy how this butterfly has garnered so much attention. There are so many people who love this butterfly. Maybe because of this sort of well-publicized decline at their wintering colonies. Maybe that spurred a lot of interest. But some of my colleagues are just as dumbfounded as me that there’s so much attention to the monarchs.
It’s actually a good and bad thing. On the one hand it provides so many eyes and ears of regular citizens who are watching for the monarchs and who will contribute data, observations, and sightings. That allows us scientists to track the monarchs on a national scale using all these sightings. You can’t do that with a fruit fly, right? Because there aren’t hundreds of thousands of people watching fruit flies right now. And so, on the one hand, it’s a good thing because it provides us with this built-in audience that can be tapped to collect data for science. On the other hand, it has some downsides because people get so attached to the monarchs, as you know, that they sometimes take it into their heads to do some crazy things with the monarchs to try to save them.
Simone Dominique
That’s why I reached out to you. In case I am one of the crazy people [laughter].
Dr. Andy Davis
I mean, I’m not saying that people who love monarchs are crazy, but yeah, people have gone out of their way to save these monarchs in a way that they probably shouldn’t. They try to do things for the monarchs based on emotions rather than evidence.
Simone Dominique
And that’s why the title I originally chose for this interview was “How Big-Hearted Floridians are Harming Monarch Butterflies.” The problem comes from people trying to help, right?
Andy Davis
A lot of it is people trying to help. There are also some less-than-ideal things going on with organizations and businesses capitalizing on monarchs. There are—I don’t know how many—nurseries in Florida that are selling milkweeds left and right. They are making some money off of the Save the Monarchs campaign. That’s not helping either, especially in Florida.
Simone Dominique
They know there is an issue, and they’re still selling.
Andy Davis
Yes and no. I don’t want to impugn any organizations out there or nurseries, but you know, selling non-native milkweed in Florida is something that is not new. The nursery growers have been told about this for many years, and they’re still doing it. And I’ve often heard of people, like regular folks, who go to a nursery, see the tropical milkweed or the non-native milkweed being sold, and they’ll approach the manager and say, “Hey, you shouldn’t be selling this.” And then a week later, it’s still there.
So I hear these stories all the time of nurseries that won’t change anything, even if they’ve been told this. It’s this weird irony because the nurseries will all say the same thing: “Well, people buy it. People buy these non-native milkweeds, and so we’re just providing what everyone wants.” Who is to blame for all the problems with the non-native milkweeds in Florida? Is it the people buying it or the nursery selling it?
Simone Dominique
Well, that’s why your role is so crucial in educating us. You’re the person who sees all of this firsthand and can analyze it for us. So, what is happening with milkweed and monarchs? Can you break it down for me? What’s the history behind it? What are you seeing?
Andy Davis
In Florida right now, the monarchs are mostly nonmigratory. And that’s because of a plethora of non-native milkweed planted in people’s backyards. And this non-native milkweed, because of the warm climate of Florida, doesn’t die back in the winter, like most native milkweed does. And that provides a year-round supply of milkweed. And whenever that happens, anywhere around the world where there are monarchs, monarchs will decide not to migrate anymore. And they’ll just become like a continuously breeding population of butterflies.
That wouldn’t be a bad thing, except that they also have this parasite that lives on them, called Ophryocystis elektroscirrha, or OE for short. It’s a naturally occurring protozoan parasite that gets into monarchs. Monarchs that are continuously breeding tend to build up this parasite in their populations. And that’s what’s happening in Florida right now. There are continuously breeding, year-round populations of monarchs that are all heavily infected with this parasite.
It’s hard to see with the naked eye because an infected monarch can look normal, completely normal, fly around your backyard, and look like a happy monarch—but it’s infected. And it’s transmitting that infection to the next generation of monarchs. Whenever they land on milkweed, they drop the infectious spores of this parasite onto the milkweed. The caterpillars on that milkweed eat those spores and then become infected. And they continue the cycle. So, a lot of infected monarchs look normal. Some infected monarchs die trying to become a butterfly during the metamorphosis stage. During the pupal stage, the parasite seems to do the most damage.
And many infected butterflies emerge from their pupal case with crinkled and crumbled wings. They’re slightly deformed. They can’t fly; they wander around on the ground and starve to death. And so a lot of people don’t see that. You only see, if you’re in Florida, you only see the ones that are flying around. And so you’re unaware of this. You could think your backyard is a butterfly paradise. You see, butterflies flying around. But in reality, dozens of deformed monarchs are crawling around on the ground, dying a slow death.
Simone Dominique
That isn’t very good to hear. What tests or what data supports this? How do you know how often this is happening?
Andy Davis
There is a way to test a monarch to see if it is infected with this parasite, and it’s very simple. It requires a basic $30 microscope that you can get from Amazon. If you have the monarch in your hand, all you have to do is take a piece of scotch tape and stick it to its abdomen, and then take the tape off and put it under the microscope. And you can see those infectious spores under the microscope. So, just by looking at the monarch, some people think they can tell they are okay, but it’s just a myth. You have to test those monarchs. And in all of the tests that have been done in Florida, they’re all coming back positive.
Simone Dominique
How is this done on a larger scale? Say, if you want to test the weather, you have multiple stations with people monitoring them. How do you do large-scale monarch testing throughout the state? How is all of this data collected?
Andy Davis
There’s another lab at the University of Georgia here that has been collecting data on this for a number of years. Their website is monarchparasites.org. They have volunteers who go out and collect butterflies, sample them, and then send those samples to the monarch parasite lab. And then they will correlate the data. And on their website, they have a map of all the infections around the country. And you can see that in Florida, the infections are the most severe.
Simone Dominique
And what’s the occurrence? Would you say 40% of the butterflies in Florida have OE now?
Andy Davis
No, it’s more like 75 to 90% in Florida.
Simone Dominique
And that’s moving north from Florida to Georgia and other states?
Andy Davis
It’s moving north. And this morning, I was looking at some maps of the spring migration as it’s progressing. And it’s clear this year that some monarchs are moving north from Florida. This is kind of a new thing. Or maybe it’s something we didn’t know much about before. But it does look like monarchs are coming from Florida, moving into the rest of the country, and probably bringing those spores with those infections and parasites. So, this is also a problem throughout the rest of the country, with monarchs, not just Florida.
There was a study that was done two years ago that I was a part of that looked at the historical prevalence of this parasite through time, going back 50 years. And we found that 50 years ago, the prevalence across the entire country was, like, .5% or less than 1% of all monarchs were infected. It was probably something where this parasite had just infected a few butterflies here and there. Historically, the parasite probably just eked out a living, getting by.
But nowadays, its prevalence across most of the country is more like 15% during the summer. We also know that during the fall migration when monarchs are trying to get to Mexico, this parasite prevents some monarchs from actually reaching their winter destinations. It’s like running a marathon with the flu; you’re not going to be able to finish the race very well. And so right now, there’s a big worry that this parasite is interfering with the fall migration to Mexico.
Now, that doesn’t really concern people in Florida because, in Florida, those monarchs aren’t traveling to Mexico. But it looks like there are monarchs that are going into Florida in the fall. And now it looks like they’re coming back out again in the spring. Keep in mind, I’m waving my hands a lot [while I speak about this] because this part hasn’t been definitively shown with an actual study. But this is the big worry: since Florida is an infection hotspot, the last thing we want is for monarchs to leave the state of Florida after they become infected.
Simone Dominique
If they keep leaving the state, could we eventually see the collapse of the species?
Andy Davis
We’re looking at a future collapse of the migration, not the species. So, this is another sort of internet myth that has been around for a while, especially in Florida circles, that’s just not true. The monarch species is not in trouble. Monarchs in fact occur around the world. And so the species itself is in no danger at all. Even the main population in North America isn’t really in danger of extinction. Their wintering colonies in Mexico have gone down over time. But that isn’t the best indicator of the entire population, despite what some people think.
Simone Dominique
What is the best indicator of the population count, then?
Andy Davis
Oh, there are a number of different sources of information that we have on this. One is a long-term monitoring project that has been done by the North American Butterfly Association. They have been collecting data on butterfly abundance in the summer across the entire North American breeding range of monarchs for 30 years. I was part of a team that examined the data and published the results of that analysis a couple of years ago. We looked at long-term trends in the abundance of monarchs from that dataset, and it was like 135,000 records of monarchs. And it was a massive study. And we found that in the summer, there are places in North America where they are declining and places where they’re increasing. But if you look at the entire gamut, the entire population, there was no overall long-term trend, either going up or down. And so it looks like North American monarchs, as a population, are doing pretty well.
“But if you look at the entire gamut, the entire population, there was no overall long-term trend, either going up or down. And so it looks like monarchs as a population are doing pretty well.“
Dr. Andy Davis
I should point out that the same study showed that the one place in the country where monarchs were increasing the most was Florida. And ironically, that’s not a good thing. Florida is the last place where we want the number of monarchs to be increasing, because of the disease. But if you think about it, the increase also means that, in reality, there was never any decline of monarchs in Florida, nor was there any real loss of habitat for monarchs in Florida. In other words, there was never really any reason to step in and save the monarchs in Florida.
Simone Dominique
We rushed out to be heroes for no reason.
Andy Davis
Kind of, yeah.
Simone Dominique
And we’re creating the problem.
Andy Davis
Basically, yes. I mean, the kindness of Floridians seems to be killing the monarchs.
“…the kindness of Floridians seems to be killing the monarchs.“
Dr. Andy Davis
Simone Dominique
Let me devil’s advocate this. Let’s pretend that I am an esteemed scientist, of your caliber, with your years of experience—
Andy Davis
Well, nobody’s my caliber [laughing]—
Simone Dominique
Who opposes what you’re saying? What holes would that person be poking in what you’re saying?
Andy Davis
I mean, yes, there are other people who have different opinions on the subject. They probably don’t have the same degree of intimate knowledge of both the population numbers and the parasite that I do. But there are other scientists out there. And they’ve said, “OE, the monarch parasite, is really a density issue.” And since the more tightly the monarchs are clustered, the more likely the parasite spreads, some people have argued that we actually need to plant more milkweed and spread them out. But that’s just wishful thinking because the entire state is 90% infected.
Simone Dominique
So when we look at the images of millions of monarchs clustered together in Mexico, and they’re dense, are we seeing OE there?
Andy Davis
Remember, the parasite culls the population as they travel. So the infected monarchs drop out of the migration because they can’t fly very well. And so by the time you get to Mexico, the prevalence is a little bit lower than what it was when you started. But remember: this parasite has evolved with the monarchs for 1000s of years, probably for all we know. And so the parasite is able to hang on to some monarchs as they’re migrating. And the parasite does seem to be able to persist in Mexico. Some lab studies have shown that this parasite prefers the cooler temperatures that monarchs would experience in Mexico during the winter. And so it seems like the parasite has evolved with the monarchs to live with them. Unfortunately, in Florida, none of that happens. The monarchs continually breed on the year-round milkweed, leading to this buildup of OE.
Simone Dominique
Okay. So, Dr. Davis, what is your solution? What do we do in Florida?
Andy Davis
A couple of weeks ago, I wrote a blog piece that went viral, and in the blog piece, I made some suggestions for people in Florida for what they can do. My suggestion is very draconian. And a lot of people don’t like to hear it. But I suggested that if people really want to be a part of the solution, they need to remove all of their backyard milkweeds. All of it. Because if you do that, the monarchs won’t have any place to lay their eggs, and there won’t be any caterpillars. Therefore, there won’t be any transmission of the parasite in your backyard.
“…if people really want to be a part of the solution, they need to remove all of their backyard milkweeds. All of it.”
Dr. Andy Davis
You can have nectar plants and flowers, and you’ll still get adult monarchs that will come through your yard and get a sip of nectar, but you won’t be transmitting the disease in your backyard. Will this solve all of Florida’s problems? No. But it WILL solve the problem in your backyard though. That’s really the only thing you can do.
“You can have nectar plants and flowers, and you’ll still get adult monarchs that will come through your yard and get a sip of nectar, but you won’t be transmitting the disease in your backyard.”
Dr. Andy Davis
Some people have this idea: you can chop back your milkweed once in a while to get rid of the spores. But that’s wishful thinking because you’re just postponing the inevitable. As soon as that milkweed you chopped back becomes in leaf again, it’ll be visited by the next monarch that comes along, which will be infected. And as soon as that monarch touches the milkweed, it will drop its infectious spores, leading to the next round again. So, chopping back milkweed is not really a solution.
Simone Dominique
It is draconian.
Andy Davis
It is draconian. Rip all of your milkweed up. People get really upset about this. I suggested ripping out all the milkweed, the non-native, and the native milkweed. And this is where people have been surprised because some people have this impression in Florida that as long as you have native milkweed, you’re free of all these problems. But in reality, that’s not the case. In anywhere else in the country, that would be the case, to keep the native milkweed. In those places, if it does get visited by an infected monarch, you know that milkweed will die back in the fall, and then all those infectious spores will disappear. That’s in most of the country. That’s the way it works. But in Florida now, native milkweed is present alongside tropical milkweed. And so now all of the monarchs in Florida are infected. So, an adult monarch flying around carrying spores doesn’t care whether the milkweed it lands on is tropical or native. And so your native milkweed in your backyard is now a hotspot for disease transmission in Florida. And it’s not your fault. It’s just that’s the way it is now in Florida because the infection is so sky-high. Even if you try to have native milkweed in your backyard, you’re still part of the problem in Florida. That’s the unfortunate reality of the situation.
Simone Dominique
Are there other species that rely on this milkweed? If we rip native milkweed out, won’t we harm those species?
Andy Davis
There are relatives of monarchs who live in Florida and could use that milkweed. Whether ripping out your backyard milkweed is harming those species is, you know, it’s anyone’s guess. Probably not; there are some milkweeds in the natural areas around Florida. On the other hand, you can think of it this way: if your backyard milkweed harbors these OE spores, the infectious parasite spores are being transmitted to those other monarch relatives too because they also get this parasite. And so if your milkweed is an infection hotspot, you’re probably harming those other relatives of the monarchs, by infecting them too. Either way, ripping out your backyard milkweed is not going to harm them; it might even help them.
Simone Dominique
Have you heard of any treatments coming down the line to fix this OE problem? Or are there simple, existing solutions? I heard bleaching milkweed worked.
Andy Davis
This idea of bleaching has been adopted by some people who rear monarchs in captivity. It’s based on this idea that you can get rid of those infectious spores on milkweed if you take cuttings of that milkweed, rinse it off, thoroughly rinse it in some bleach water, then rinse it again, and keep rinsing until the milkweed is clean, and then feed it to some captive monarchs. They probably won’t get the infection. But you can do that in a captive scenario: deal with OE. However, rearing monarchs in captivity is not the answer in Florida either. It’s not like we need to produce more healthy monarchs in Florida. Because, say, you rear some monarchs in captivity, and you release a whole bunch of them that are free of OE, and they’re healthy, those monarchs that you released are just going to go and lay their eggs on the next milkweed they find which is covered with spores from this parasite. And so those healthy monarchs you released will continue the cycle in Florida. It is a no-win situation in Florida.
Simone Dominique
It sounds like a no-win. I’ve been building this backyard sanctuary. I love gardening. I watch more species come to my yard every year. Every day I step outside, I see different butterflies, and I love it. Now, hearing that I have to rip out milkweed completely is difficult.
Andy Davis
This is hard for many people because your story is the same as everyone else’s in Florida. People spend time and money trying to attract the monarchs to their yards. And it looked like you were helping. You saw the pretty butterflies, but here comes this mean scientist who tells you this terrible news. I actually get hate mail for this.
Simone Dominique
[Laughter] No, I’m sure it’s not hate. You are an expert on this.
Andy Davis
I do. I do get hate mail.
Simone Dominique
Do you get hate mail? That’s funny-not funny. Actually, it’s not funny. Is this milkweed problem worse since the pandemic when we all stepped outside and did more gardening in Florida?
Andy Davis
Not really. This problem has been building for many years. It’s hard to know exactly when—someone would have to go back and look to see when tropical milkweed and other non-native milkweed started getting sold.
Simone Dominique
Okay. Back to my earlier question. In your opinion, is there an alternative solution? Is there something else that we can do? Or it’s as you said, “Just rip it out.” Is planting native milkweed a slight improvement?
Andy Davis
It is better than non-native milkweed because it will die back at some point. But people shouldn’t kid themselves into thinking this will solve the problem. Your native milkweed in Florida will still carry these OE spores. The problem is, there are so many monarchs. And another part of the problem is that monarchs can—people forget—travel miles. They’re flying insects. They travel miles. And so you can have a neighbor down the street who has some non-native milkweed and refuses to remove it. That neighbor could be responsible for all the infections in the city block because those monarchs can travel so far. And so it’s a situation where everybody needs to do this. And if just one person refuses, it’s all for naught because these monarchs will go everywhere. I hate to be sort of like a downer with this because, you know, it is a sad story, right? It’s a tragic irony.
Simone Dominique
I know. It is sad. But I do believe in data and science.
Andy Davis
Well, that’s good. If one thing that comes from this is that people start listening to what the scientists are saying—that’s one good thing. My rule of thumb with monarchs these days, whether it’s this issue or another issue that they have, I always tell people to try to emulate what happens in nature. And try to step back and not be so connected to the monarchs. Remember, in the beginning of this interview we discussed how people are so connected to, so emotionally attached to, the monarchs. That’s what is actually causing these problems. I think people need to detach and stop, you know, with this love affair with the monarchs and learn to reel it in. People need to realize that monarchs are a part of the ecosystem. They’re part of the food chain. And we humans don’t need to step in and save them. Whether it’s your backyard or the species as a whole, I’ve come to realize through all this research that the monarchs would be much better off without us. Because it seems like by trying to save them, we’re making things worse.
“I’ve come to realize through all this research that the monarchs would be much better off without us. Because it seems like by trying to save them, we’re actually making things worse.”
Dr. Andy Davis
Simone Dominique
Did you ever think that we needed to save them? Was there a time when your stance changed? Or has this been obvious to you for a while?
Andy Davis
I have always had this same take-home message with all things nature-related. There are so many examples in human history where humans, in our arrogance, try to “fix” Mother Nature or try to manage it. For instance, we brought in kudzu to help with soil erosion in the southeast, and it went crazy. There are so many situations in nature where we try to fix something that we broke, but the fix becomes worse. And yet, there are so many other situations in nature where you can see if you step back and leave Mother Nature to itself, it will restore itself. Whether it’s a patch of land or a forest, if we do nothing, then Mother Nature will heal. In the monarchs’ situation, people have this sense of entitlement where they want to be the ones to save the monarch. And there’s something about that Savior mentality that people have where they want to be the one to do it, and it makes them feel good. And I think that’s where people will go wrong. We never needed to save them.
Simone Dominique
For me, it was more like, if I see it, if there is some small action I can do to help, why not? Polar bears need help, but I can’t help them directly. They aren’t migrating through my backyard. If they were, I would probably jump to action. Helping monarchs was something small that I believed I could do.
Andy Davis
There’s a weird irony to that. What you said is the same thing that everybody else thinks. One of my colleagues, Anurag Agrawal, once made a comment: “Monarch butterflies are the best and the worst flagship species for insect conservation.” They’re the best because, like you just said, everybody has seen a monarch in their backyard. They can touch it; they get to know it. But, then again, they’re their worst, because EVERYBODY has one in their backyard. In other words, they are everywhere. That is not a species that is in trouble.
Simone Dominique
That’s a good note to wrap up on. But I do have a question for you. It is about something that was on your blog. You stated that you answer questions people are curious about, such as why you can have spiders near a road. And I’ve always wondered why we put wildflowers on the side of roads. I understand we’re trying to have food for butterflies and bees. But I drive past the wildflowers and insects splatter on my windshields. What’s your thought on that? Are roadsides the wrong place? Does it matter?
Andy Davis
This is getting off-track a bit, but in my mind, it’s the wrong place. That’s another one of these comfy, cozy, sugar-coated practices we do, thinking we’re helping. It’s not.
Simone Dominique
It feels akin to putting a school playground next to Interstate 95.
Andy Davis
There has been a lot of research on this subject, and none of it is very good. For example, some research shows that monarchs are being killed by the millions on roadsides during their migration. Millions. And yet we keep putting these flowers and milkweeds next to the roads, trying to attract butterflies to the roadsides. So it’s another one of these cases where people are doing things because they think it helps. And they’re ignoring the science just because they want that feel-good story.
Simone Dominique
Thank you for your time. Is there something that I should have asked you that I didn’t ask or something you’d like to add?
Andy Davis
I hope this doesn’t paint me as a cynic or anything else like that. One journalist I talked to once characterized me as an iconoclast. And I was initially annoyed at that. And then I looked it up. It’s somebody who questions traditional storylines and narratives. And I think that’s me. Some of these things that people are taking for granted, that they are helping, I’ve been the one to say, let’s look at the data. That’s what I try to do with my blog, with my research, and even in the Facebook group I admin. I say, let’s look at the data.
Simone Dominique
You’ve done an excellent job communicating where we stand and what we must do. At the beginning of this call, I was convinced I would not rip out my native milkweed. But I think you’ve actually convinced me that I can play a small role in fixing this by removing it. So you have one person.
Andy Davis
Think of it as helping future generations of monarchs. You’re preventing those future infections.
Simone Dominique
I have some caterpillars right now on my milkweed. When do I rip it up?
Andy Davis
I’ve gotten this question before. There isn’t a good answer; it’s not an answer you want to hear. If you wait until those caterpillars become adult butterflies, they will fly away with their infections and continue the cycle. You can rip out your milkweed at that point, but then you’ll have just perpetuated some more infections. So I would argue, rip your milkweed now. Take the caterpillars and put them in the freezer.
Simone Dominique
Wow.
Andy Davis
Again, you’re preventing future infections. Remember, it’s a bug.
Simone Dominique
I don’t have the heart to kill a caterpillar. How about I rip out the milkweed after? Is that a deal? Will you take that from me?
Andy Davis
[Laughter] It’s your milkweed. Do whatever you want. Just don’t kid yourself into thinking that you’re helping. I should have said this in the conversation. If you really want to know if your monarchs are infected, learn how to test them. You can do that.
Simone Dominique
Okay. Can I test my caterpillars?
Andy Davis
No, you have to wait until they become adult butterflies. You can take the caterpillars and put them into a container. Then, wait till they become adults, and then take the adults and test them with a microscope. And then you’ll know.
Simone Dominique
Perfect.
Andy Davis
I’ve been telling people this too. If they want to be convinced of everything I’ve said, test your monarchs because there is no better motivator once you realize you are the problem.
Simone Dominique
Okay, you have given me actionable insights. I will buy a $30 microscope and proceed from there.
Andy Davis
Good for you. I think everybody in Florida should do that, too.
Simone Dominique
Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
Andy Davis
My pleasure.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
monarchs, milkweed, parasite, Florida, people, butterflies, monarch, backyard, infections, migration, infected, nurseries, data, native, OE, species, spores, caterpillars, years, biologist, Dr. Andy Davis
